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Re: FW: bad rand generator: distribution/prevalences/periodicity
Posted: 03 Jul 2011, 14:50
by afanofosc
There is no API function called srandEx.
Look at the source code and you can see what exactly these values do.
Read wikipedia and other internet articles about the park-miller/lehmer LCG to find out what seeds are appropriate.
I would use the C FAQ recommendation for getting subsets of the random number range but from what I have read the values I am using with the RNG are "modulus compatible".
Since Seed is a signed long any value greater than its maximum positive value (LONG_MAX) will wrap negative and any negative number will cause the seed to be set back to the previous seed.
John Hansen
Re: FW: bad rand generator: distribution/prevalences/periodicity
Posted: 03 Jul 2011, 17:38
by afanofosc
edit: Doc deleted his last post for some reason...
You call srand to seed the RNG and you call rand to get a random number. I have already said that on this thread. There is no timer function so you can look at the source code I posted a link to to see what it does with seed values that are equal to 0 to less than zero. Just run all your same tests with srand(1) or (2) or whichever seed you used in your other tests and %16 or %100 on rand() and see what happens.
John Hansen
Re: FW: bad rand generator: distribution/prevalences/periodicity
Posted: 03 Jul 2011, 17:41
by HaWe
ooops, sorry, wanted to write new....
but anyway, the reply says it all..
well, I have no doubt that the new functon works like documented - opposite to the old rand function.
Re: FW: bad rand generator: distribution/prevalences/periodicity
Posted: 03 Jul 2011, 22:06
by linusa
m-goldberg wrote:I posted the quotation because I thought those who following this thread would enjoy von Neumann's joke.
Thanks, I really did.
Re: FW: bad rand generator: distribution/prevalences/periodicity
Posted: 07 Jul 2011, 01:36
by timpattinson
I made a little program that displays targets on the screen in Random() places.
I ran it for 5mins and i looked like this:
- nxt.gif (3.9 KiB) Viewed 8553 times
Image drawing routine:
Code: Select all
#define DrawTarget(x){ \
if(x.sleep) {} \
else{ \
CircleOut(x.X,x.Y,1); \
CircleOut(x.X,x.Y,3); \
CircleOut(x.X,x.Y,5); \
} \
}
#define WakeTarget(x){ \
x.sleep = false; \
x.X = Random(99); \
x.Y = Random(63); \
}
bool sleep = false;
while(1){
if(sleep)
{
sleep = false;
SleepTarget(MyTarget);
}
else{sleep=1;}
DrawTarget(MyTarget);
Wait(1000);
WakeTarget(MyTarget);
}
Full Code:
Code: Select all
struct target{
byte X;
byte Y;
bool sleep;
unsigned long wakeTick;
};
#define DrawTarget(x){ \
if(x.sleep) {} \
else{ \
CircleOut(x.X,x.Y,1); \
CircleOut(x.X,x.Y,3); \
CircleOut(x.X,x.Y,5); \
} \
}
#define SleepTarget(x){ \
x.sleep = true; \
x.wakeTick = CurrentTick() + 2000; \
}
#define WakeTarget(x){ \
x.sleep = false; \
x.X = Random(99); \
x.Y = Random(63); \
}
task main(){
target MyTarget;
MyTarget.X = 30;
MyTarget.Y = 30;
MyTarget.sleep = 0;
bool slp = false;
while(1){
if(slp)
{
slp = false;
SleepTarget(MyTarget);
}
else{slp=1;}
DrawTarget(MyTarget);
Wait(1000);
WakeTarget(MyTarget);
}
}
Re: FW: bad rand generator: distribution/prevalences/periodicity
Posted: 07 Jul 2011, 06:11
by HaWe
thank you Tim,
very impressive, this again proves: 1 picture says more than 1000 words (1 word= 4 byte)^^
After 5 Minutes the Mersenne Twister output looks like this:
- TimGraphicMrand.jpg (28.67 KiB) Viewed 8542 times
(maybe be better compare number of loops instead of minutes in future)
Code: Select all
//-------------------------------------------------------
// Kernighan & Ritchie LCG (linear congruence generator)
//-------------------------------------------------------
unsigned long _RAND_SEED_ = 1; // 1= default value (program start)
unsigned long _OLD_SEED_ = 1;
//--------------------------------------------
unsigned long Krand() // custom random function
{
_RAND_SEED_ = _RAND_SEED_ * 1103515245 + 12345;
return (_RAND_SEED_ % (RAND_MAX + 1));
}
//--------------------------------------------
void sKrand(unsigned long seed) // seeds for a new random series
{
if (seed==0) // 0: a "real" randomized random seed
{
seed = ( CurrentTick()*BatteryLevel() );
} // substitute to time(0)
else
if (seed==-1) { // -1: restore last random series
seed = _OLD_SEED_;
}
_OLD_SEED_ = seed;
_RAND_SEED_ = seed; // patch for rand_ function
}
//---------------------------------------------------------
// Mersenne Twister by Makoto Matsumoto & Takuji Nishimura
//---------------------------------------------------------
const int N_MTW = 25;
const int M_MTW = 7;
const unsigned long A_MTW[] = {0, 0x8ebfd028};
unsigned long y_MTW[25];
int i_MTW;
char virgin_MTW=TRUE, new_MTW=FALSE;
void InitMTW() {
i_MTW = N_MTW+1;
}
//--------------------------------------------
unsigned long sMrand(unsigned long x) {
unsigned long r, s;
int k;
if (x==1) InitMTW();
else {
InitMTW();
if (x==0) {x=Random(CurrentTick());}
for (k=0 ; k<25 ; ++k) {
InitMTW();
r = 9+x;
s = 3402+x;
for (k=0 ; k<25 ; ++k) {
r = 509845221 * r + 3;
s *= s + 1;
y_MTW[k] = s + (r >> 10);
}
new_MTW=TRUE;
}
}
}
//--------------------------------------------
unsigned long Mrand(void) {
unsigned long r, s, e;
int k;
if (virgin_MTW) {InitMTW(); virgin_MTW=FALSE; }
if (i_MTW >= N_MTW) {
if ((i_MTW > N_MTW) && !new_MTW) {
r = 9;
s = 3402;
for (k=0 ; k<N_MTW ; ++k) {
r = 509845221 * r + 3;
s *= s + 1;
y_MTW[k] = s + (r >> 10);
}
}
for (k=0 ; k<N_MTW-M_MTW ; ++k)
y_MTW[k] = y_MTW[k+M_MTW] ^ (y_MTW[k] >> 1) ^ A_MTW[y_MTW[k] & 1];
for (; k<N_MTW ; ++k)
y_MTW[k] = y_MTW[k+(M_MTW-N_MTW)] ^ (y_MTW[k] >> 1) ^ A_MTW[y_MTW[k] & 1];
i_MTW = 0;
}
new_MTW=false;
e = y_MTW[i_MTW++];
e ^= (e << 7) & 0x2b5b2500;
e ^= (e << 15) & 0xdb8b0000;
e ^= (e >> 16);
return e;
}
//---------------------------------------------------------
// Grafik RNG Test
//---------------------------------------------------------
struct target{
byte X;
byte Y;
bool sleep;
unsigned long wakeTick;
};
#define DrawTarget(x){ \
if(x.sleep) {} \
else{ \
CircleOut(x.X,x.Y,1); \
CircleOut(x.X,x.Y,3); \
CircleOut(x.X,x.Y,5); \
} \
}
#define SleepTarget(x){ \
x.sleep = true; \
x.wakeTick = CurrentTick() + 2000; \
}
#define WakeTarget(x){ \
x.sleep = false; \
x.X = Mrand()%100; \
x.Y = Mrand()% 63; \
}
task main(){
long time0;
target MyTarget;
MyTarget.X = 30;
MyTarget.Y = 30;
MyTarget.sleep = 0;
bool slp = false;
time0=CurrentTick();
while((CurrentTick()-time0)<1000*60*5) { // do it for 5 min
if(slp)
{
slp = false;
SleepTarget(MyTarget);
}
else{slp=1;}
DrawTarget(MyTarget);
Wait(1000);
WakeTarget(MyTarget);
}
PlayTone(1000,100); Wait(200);
PlayTone(1000,100); Wait(100);
while(1);
}
Re: FW: bad rand generator: distribution/prevalences/periodicity
Posted: 07 Jul 2011, 06:25
by timpattinson
doc-helmut wrote: 1 picture says more than 1000 words (1 word= 4 byte)^^
Thanks for taking time to improve my code
EDIT: 3989/4
= 997.25
So close
Re: FW: bad rand generator: distribution/prevalences/periodicity
Posted: 07 Jul 2011, 07:22
by afanofosc
Using the new rand() function with modulus (i.e., only change to Doc's code was to get rid of all that MRand stuff and call rand() instead):
- nxtimage_12.gif (4.13 KiB) Viewed 8536 times
The new rand() function generates a single line of NBC code. The modulus adds one more. You can get a million rand()%16 loop iterations in 222900 ms.
Doc, when are you going to run the infinite monkey test using the new rand() function?
John Hansen
Re: FW: bad rand generator: distribution/prevalences/periodicity
Posted: 07 Jul 2011, 07:30
by HaWe
As I already wrote, any Lehmer or K&R LCG would be better than the old Lego rand. That the old Lego fw rand() was really poor was why I opened this thread, and I tried to prove that.
The LCGs all are very well documented, so that this RNG issue is now clear and obvious so far, I'm convinced of that and I don't need to convince anybody of that.
Now to have a new rand function based on a LCG is a big leap for Legokind.
But LCGs of what kind ever do not meet the requirements of stochastical filters, as you probably know since you already read the references, too, as I assume ^^
Re: FW: bad rand generator: distribution/prevalences/periodicity
Posted: 07 Jul 2011, 09:54
by timpattinson
When will the new rand() be available I have BricxCC 3.3.8.9 and the latest test release, plus the EFW that came with the test release/